Memory Beta:Pages for deletion/File:AndorianEmblem.jpg
thumb|[[: .]] This is a page to discuss the suggestion to delete the attached image. *If you are suggesting a page for deletion, add your initial rationale to the section "Deletion rationale". *To vote simply add "Delete", "Keep", "Neutral". *If you want to discuss this suggestion, add comments to the section "Discussion". *If a consensus has been reached, an admin will explain the final decision in the section "Admin resolution". In all cases, please make sure to read and understand the deletion policy before editing this page. Deletion rationale Copyright and artist not immediately established, although it is established that the image was copied from EAS. Additionally, the usage appears to be in error -- there isn't a source establishing this specifically as the governmental emblem of the Andorian Empire -- even though it is accepted canonically as an emblem of the Andorian people, I can't find a reference that states this is the symbol of their Empire. -- Captain MKB 18:27, September 25, 2010 (UTC) Votes *''Delete'' or replace with appropriate sourcing. -- Captain MKB 18:27, September 25, 2010 (UTC) *''Keep'' -- Sci 18:55 25 SEPT 2010 UTC *''Keep'' --8of5 11:17, September 26, 2010 (UTC) Discussion The image description has been updated with an attribution in line with the 2007 policy -- it attributes the creators by name, links to the source, provides contact information, cites the creator's policy of allowing attributed use with a link, and describes where the user graphic itself was created from. It also abide with the creator's policy of only allowing a link to his primary home page rather than to any of his site's sub-pages, to preserve his bandwidth. See discussion on the image's discussion page for issue relating to whether it is the Emblem of the Andorian Empire. -- Sci 18:55 25 SEPT 2010 UTC ::The attribution added is both incomplete and unnecessarily long -- We need to know the original author, a link to EAS, and the re-use status -- i.e. is it limited license, free use, public domain, etc. This has not been addressed even with all the extraneous data. ::Since the talk page discussion was taken off track with discussion of other topics, I'd rather that new contributors discuss it here, for ease of use. Especially since it is such a simple question. -- Captain MKB 19:04, September 25, 2010 (UTC) :::The attribution added specifically cites the original authors ("Reverend" and Bernd Schneider) and includes a link to EAS, so the accusation that it does not cite the original author or provide a link is untrue. It also explicitly includes a description of EAS's re-use policy, which I will reproduce here: ::::A: Yes. I grant you the right to use parts of my material under these terms: ::::1. You republish the material in the form of excerpts. I do not approve of reproductions of entire EAS pages. I do not approve of sites that use my layout graphics or otherwise imitate the look of EAS. ::::2. You give appropriate credit to EAS including a hyperlink. I will agree to a mention on a global credit page if you use single graphics or text passages, but I insist on more clearly visible credits in case of more extensive excerpts. ::::3. For any content that I am showing by courtesy of a third party, you must ask permission from this original source (i.e. from the designer or author who is credited at EAS). In particular, this applies to the entire content of the SF Museum, JoAT, ASDB, Fan Fiction and Canon Fodder. Note that in some cases of contributed material special terms of use may apply! ::::4. I reserve the right to deny or retract my approval if the material appears in an improper context. This may include, but is not restricted to: anti-Star Trek propaganda, promotion of intolerance or illegal activities, disfiguration or distortion of my images (no matter if intentionally or accidentally because of bad image editing), misquoting of my views and findings, unauthorized commercial exploitation of my intellectual property. :::In the interests of completion, I am emailing "Reverend" to obtain permission from him, though I seem to recall having done that five years ago. -- Sci 19:11 25 SEPT 2010 UTC ::::I don't even think that is necessary. I'm just saying that there is still nothing on the page that addresses "This image is copyright to..." "for use only if credited to ...". I know you tried but this is still missing. -- Captain MKB 19:25, September 25, 2010 (UTC) I've re-added that information using the template found on the Image Attribution Policy page. And, for the record, I'd like to point out that the format of that template is probably incorrect for user-created graphics based upon images found in a screencap. More than likely, CBS retains copyright ownership of any user graphics of an emblem from Star Trek. But that's a separate issue. -- Sci 19:28 25 SEPT 2010 UTC :I believe there is another template that addresses CBS Paramount and establishes authorship. -- Captain MKB 19:33, September 25, 2010 (UTC) ::The only templates identified on the Image use page are imageparamount, imagefairuse, and imagecopyright. Of these, only imagecopyright has variables for authorship and origin. If there is a template for user-created graphics that acknowledges CBS's continued ownership while also acknowledging a creator of that graphic and its source, I do not know where it is. -- Sci 19:39 25 SEPT 2010 UTC :I think this nomination was frankly inappropriate, both the attribution and usage arguments are the subjects of heated discussions elsewhere, discussions which should and could of reached a conclusion before starting yet another front on what appears to be a conflict between Mike and Sci. This isn’t a constructive way to do things, I understand disputes arise, but escalating them be expanding them to more and more parts of the site does not help fix them! :Furthermore, the image is derived from canon and is one we should have in some use on the site, and the attribution can clearly be addressed; so there is and was never any reason to delete this image. --8of5 11:17, September 26, 2010 (UTC) ::Wow, amazingly, now other unattributed images are being sourced, all across the site! Could this discussion have helped bring to light the issue of unattributed/uncategorized images that have lingered in the database without anyone taking any effort whatsoever to bring them in line with current policy? One can only wonder and continue grumbling... -- MKB Well I have (am) sourced(ing) a couple in response to questions being asked on their talk page, it didn't the dramatics of deletion to achieve that... --8of5 02:16, September 29, 2010 (UTC) Admin resolution I have amended the template per Mike's suggestion elsewhere, and while the usage still seems to be in dispute I believe it is agreed that it should be used here in some way, so the image need not be deleted. --8of5 01:48, September 29, 2010 (UTC)